{"id":10865,"date":"2019-01-15T21:49:28","date_gmt":"2019-01-15T20:49:28","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/kennethsorensen.dk\/?p=10865"},"modified":"2026-03-04T12:02:45","modified_gmt":"2026-03-04T11:02:45","slug":"the-gentle-synthesizer-assagioli","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/kennethsorensen.dk\/en\/the-gentle-synthesizer-assagioli\/","title":{"rendered":"The Gentle Synthesizer"},"content":{"rendered":"<h2><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">An Interview on the Future of Psychotherapy and Psychosynthesis<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h2>\r\n<p><em><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter wp-image-10866 size-full\" title=\"Roberto Assagioli founder of Psychosynthesis\" src=\"https:\/\/kennethsorensen.dk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/11-assagioli-interview.jpg\" alt=\"Roberto Assagioli founder of Psychosynthesis\" width=\"680\" height=\"357\" srcset=\"https:\/\/kennethsorensen.dk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/11-assagioli-interview.jpg 680w, https:\/\/kennethsorensen.dk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/11-assagioli-interview-419x220.jpg 419w, https:\/\/kennethsorensen.dk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/11-assagioli-interview-300x158.jpg 300w, https:\/\/kennethsorensen.dk\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/11-assagioli-interview-400x210.jpg 400w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 680px) 100vw, 680px\" \/><\/em><\/p>\r\n<p><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Interview with Roberto Assagioli<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><br \/><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> By <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Vin Rosenthal<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">, Editor of VOICES, with <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Pat Rosenthal<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><br \/><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Originally published in VOICES, 1973 <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><br \/><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Assagioli Archives \u2013 Florence<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n<p><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Editorial note<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><br \/><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> This text is an extended i<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">nterview conducted by Vin Rosenthal, with Pat Rosenthal, and published in VOICES magazine in 1973. Roberto Assagioli is the interviewee and subject of the text, not the author of a written article. The title, abstract, and cross-sections in this online edition have been added by the editor, Kenneth S\u00f8rensen, to support readability, navigation, and archival consistency. The original wording of the interview, including its narrative introduction, has not been altered.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-dots\" \/>\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3 data-start=\"1865\" data-end=\"2663\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Abstract<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\" data-start=\"1865\" data-end=\"2663\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">In this extended interview, Roberto Assagioli reflects on the future of psychotherapy, the foundations of psychosynthesis, and the necessity of a humanistic\u2013transpersonal approach to psychological healing. Speaking with Vin Rosenthal and Pat Rosenthal, he discusses health as wholeness, the uniqueness of each individual, the centrality of rapport over technique, the development of all human functions, and the integration of biological, psychological, and transpersonal dimensions. Assagioli addresses education, meditation, will, aggression, sublimation, therapeutic cooperation, group therapy, creativity, and the ethical formation of therapists. The interview offers a comprehensive late-life articulation of psychosynthesis as an inclusive psychology oriented towards self-actualization and service.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-dots\" \/>\r\n<p>In the taxi on our way to his home on the Via Domenico to interview Dottore Roberto Assagioli, we wonder what he will be like; feeling like intruders even though he has been so graciously helpful in our contacts through correspondence and in yesterday&#8217;s telephone call confirming our coming. We know little about Assagioli himself other than that he is a physician-psychotherapist who at 85 years of age still works long hours each day with patients, students\u2014and visitors; that in 1910 he had been an early pioneer of psychoanalysis in Italy, later founding Psychosynthesis, incorporating and moving beyond analysis in a direction which today would be called humanistic-transpersonal.<\/p>\r\n<p>From the dark entry way of the stone house we are led to a tiny sitting room to wait; then on to his study. What a contrast between the height and expanse of the bookshelves and the delicate-appearing man they surround. He greets us with just the slightest hint of formality in unhesitating English, and after a few preliminaries we settle down to being with one another. Although our interview is punctuated by ringing telephone bells and messages from without, nothing disturbs our flow. Since Professor Assagioli has a severe hearing loss, we must write each question and comment we put to him; giving him ample time to reply, requiring us to be precise and to the point. We soon experience his gentle strength, delightful humor, his wise and moving presence. Suddenly we are so full\u2014we feel it is time to leave; a warm, fulfilled\u2014peak\u2014moment.\u2014Instituto di Psicosintesi, 16 Via San Domenico, Florence, Italia.<\/p>\r\n<p><strong>VIN ROSENTHAL:<\/strong> I read your book on psychosynthesis&#8221;* and I feel that it is most appropriate for our subject, &#8220;The Future of Psychotherapy in the World.&#8221; And I would appreciate if you would focus some of your ideas in that direction.<\/p>\r\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"YouTube video player\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/QLTK6zPSSzo?si=FHyyGG4A2ac2a0zD\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><\/iframe><\/p>\r\n<p><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Roberto Assagioli<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Only that?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> (Laughter) Well, to start, as a beginning. It seemed to me that the scope of your work was so broad\u2014<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Health as Wholeness and the Limits of Symptom Treatment<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><strong>A:<\/strong> Well, in a general way, one could say that the trend is clearly towards more and more humanistic psychotherapy, taking into consideration the whole man and starting from the living subject.\u00a0Not therapy in the ordinary medical sense, to fight an illness or &#8220;symptoms,&#8221; but to take into consideration the whole man and his harmonious self-actualization; the specific therapy part consists in eliminating the obstacles to that, eliminating the symptoms created by mistaken attitudes or influences. The attitude is to start with health and to eliminate what has prevented full health.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Health is wholeness.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> That seems obvious and common sense to us, but really to the prevailing medical mentality, it is revolutionary.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> They&#8217;re used to seeing people in pieces. A: Well, a doctor thinks his duty is to &#8220;fight an illness.&#8221; Let us take a very homely example. If somebody has a bad cold with fever, the doctor first wants to give medicine against the fever, which is non-sensical because the fever is a defense reaction of the organism. And then he is given antibiotics to prevent possible complications of the cold and so he thinks that he is on the safe side, that it is his duty. But antibiotics are apt to be more harmful than the cold. This is an over-simplified example, but that shows the average doctor&#8217;s mentality. They think it&#8217;s their duty to do that and they do it with the best humanitarian conscience. Instead the starting point is to take into consideration the whole man and help the healthy part of him to become &#8220;whole.&#8221;<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> What are the characteristics of the whole, healthy person from the point of view of <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/kennethsorensen.dk\/en\/awareness-will-based-counselling\/\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">psychosynthesis<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/a><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> ? What would you like?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">The Uniqueness of the Individual<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I don&#8217;t think one can list these qualities because each of us is different and has the right to be healthy in his own way. This is another basic point in psychosynthesis: the uniqueness of each individual; at the present stage of his life and also at different stages of evolution, of development; no generalising, no labelling. What is healthy for an adolescent is no more healthy for a young man or for a mature man. So it&#8217;s very individual; according to the make up of the individual and his stage of development, both outer physical age and inner age, so to speak\u2014the stage of realization. Psychosynthesis is very &#8220;individualistic&#8221; in this sense. It tries to deal with the present unique situation in the interplay between therapist and patient.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Must be some kind of general idea\u2014<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Report on Technique in Psychotherapy<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> This is a point of major importance: the emphasis on the therapeutic interplay, the rapport, and not so much on the technique. As you well know, there are many techniques, but they are only &#8220;instruments&#8221; and should not become an end. In psychoanalysis much stress is put on transference, but this is only the beginning of the report. I deal with four stages of the therapeutic rapport, the basic human relationship between the therapist and the patient.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I was thinking, in applying psychosynthesis to education, in terms of the future, what kind of goals are implied? How would they work?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> In a sense children should be &#8220;influenced&#8221; as little as possible. R: As little as possible. I was thinking that\u2014<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> But to be more specific and coming back to the healthy person, full self-actualization implies the development of all the functions of the human being. For instance, Jung recognizes four functions: sensation, feeling, thought, and intuition. But these are not all. There are also imagination, impulse, and will. Now we are at a rather primitive stage in education. It is mostly mental education: to memorize, to give information, while the emotional, feeling aspect has been neglected in education. But now there is an emerging trend toward confluent education\u2014<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Confluent?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Education and the Development of All Human Functions<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Confluent education means a confluence of mind with feeling and emotion. But even this is only the first step. Education should include all functions. And therapy the same. So in the assessment of a patient, one should ascertain what functions are underdeveloped, repressed, neglected, and what are relatively overdeveloped.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> So the ideal is the harmonious, the balance.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Higher and Lower Aspects of the Psyche<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> It is the full actualization of each of the functions. The second important consideration is that each function has a lower and a higher aspect. The mind has a lower aspect\u2014purely analytical, critical, while its higher aspect is reason and the higher mental activities. The same with emotion: there are primitive, coarse emotions and there are refined feelings. And the will: there is a strong imperative, selfish will and the good will, the Will-to-good. Thus each function should be developed to the highest level of possible expression.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> How hard it is to do that.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> The harmonious use of all functions and the use of all functions at a higher level. Now generally psychotherapy aims chiefly at solution of emotional conflicts \u2014emotional conflicts in the individual and with other people: that of course is essential, but it is not enough. There are two other levels. One is the biological level which many psychotherapists neglect; one has to deal with the complex interplay of the psychosomatic influences. The other level is that loosely called spiritual, but which it is better now to call &#8220;transpersonal.&#8221; It includes what Maslow calls the &#8220;higher needs.&#8221; I&#8217;m very much in accordance with that line. I found in my practice a definite difference between those who need only what I call &#8220;personal psychosynthesis,&#8221; that means that harmonious development of all the normal human functions; and another group, that of those who need something more, a transpersonal self-realization, who have needs which are not merely &#8220;normal,&#8221; right functioning, but feel the urge to go beyond that.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> How did you personally come to recognize the importance of laughter? How did you discover it?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Direct experience, both mine and that of my clients and pupils. Of course there is also information about it in various books by psychotherapists, but my best teachers have been my patients. The needs of the situation. My attitude is wholly empirical: no theorizing, no concepts, but just drawing the conclusions from the living reality. There is far too much theorizing, I believe, which is limiting.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> What I was wondering about was, were there experiences in your life that led you to this?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> My life experience has been a gradual awakening of the higher needs, of what Maslow calls &#8220;the farther reaches of the human mind.&#8221;<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Would you be willing to tell me of any such experiences that led to new awarenesses, such as the use of meditation or emphasis on the body?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Inner Experience, Meditation, and the Discovery of the Self<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I had some spontaneous insights, but then others came through the use of various techniques of meditation, of what I call &#8220;inner action.&#8221; And that led to the living experience of the SELF.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> How did you come to learn them? How did you come to meditation?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> They are available if one takes the trouble to look for them. The difficulty is that generally they are closely linked with philosophies or religions.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Why did you look for them?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Ah! It was the inner need. I felt that there were inner worlds to be explored, inner adventures. In my remote young years, my preferred sport was mountain climbing. When I saw a mountain, I felt the urge to go there, because I was sure I would see wider space and from a higher vantage point. And that was symbolic of my inner urge to explore the heights of human nature and the peaks of realization. You see?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Yes.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I felt it was a quite &#8220;natural&#8221; urge for me and then I went ahead and looked for the means.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Am I asking questions that are too personal?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Oh no. They are &#8220;human.&#8221; They are not biographical details; they are the trends of one&#8217;s life. There&#8217;s one point I should like to emphasize further: generally these techniques for transpersonal realization are bound with specific religions and philosophies; Christianity, especially Catholics, have their techniques of meditation, contemplation, union with God; the Hindus have various techniques: Raja Yoga, Vedanta and others, and so on. Thus people are apt to believe that those practices are necessarily linked with their religion or philosophy. But it is not so; one can use the same techniques without their theological or philosophical, metaphysical framework. Thus I try to take, to extract, the common elements of the various techniques, independently of their respective frameworks. This is important with patients: I can work very well with a Catholic or a Protestant, with an agnostic and anybody else, because the work is empirical; discovery, adventure.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Is the world hospitable to psychotherapy? I see you as having spent a great many years developing psychosynthesis\u2014<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Well, the world desperately needs psychotherapy. And not only individuals, but also group psychotherapy, psychotherapy of the family, of the human groups, of nations.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> How?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Leaders need it badly!<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> They&#8217;re at least likely to come.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> But they are becoming psychotherapy-conscious. If you compare with some ten or twenty years ago, one notices that the movement is accelerating.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> You remind me of Swami Satchidananda.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> It&#8217;s an honor. Now to be specific on a problem. There is one now much debated: group therapy. I am somewhat wary of group therapy, that is therapists treating a group, because the needs of the individuals are so different and sometimes one patient needs a therapy contrary to that required by others. There may be an over-intellectual who needs sensitivity training and emotional release and, on the other hand, there may be an overly emotional woman or man who needs more of the mental approach. And this is difficult to make in a group. Group therapy is more suited for not very serious cases and more in a form of teaching. Anyhow in psychosynthesis since the beginning I have encouraged the active cooperation of the patient. Starting from what I mentioned before, I say: &#8220;Your healthy part, which may be 90 per cent of you, can cooperate with me to get rid of the 10 per cent of the, let us call it, the diseased part.&#8221; I make an appeal to the healthy percentage which exists in every individual, also in psychotics, and say: &#8220;Your healthy part allied with me can overcome any trouble.&#8221; You see, that is encouraging; it also explains the paradox, that while psychosynthesis has a much wider scope than psychoanalysis, the treatment can be much shorter, owing to the active cooperation of the patient. Often, when I have taught a technique, I say: &#8220;Well, go ahead and use it by yourself and then report. And if there isn&#8217;t success let us analyze the cause and do better.&#8221;<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Would you give an example of a technique? You just mentioned that you do teach a patient a technique.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> There are many explained in my book and it is difficult to choose. Let us say, one which is not dealt with at length in the book is that of substitution. It means never to make a frontal attack against the trouble or against an exaggerated drive, but to divert, to channel the energy elsewhere through the power of a new and different interest.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Would you give an example of how that would work?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Aggression, Transmutation, and Substitution<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Well, it is tied up with another fact that is very important, the transmutation and sublimation of psychological energies. This for me is, in a sense, a central method which I think is too much neglected. In the past, there was all the symbolic alchemy which dealt with transmutation and later Jung had taken it up, but rather in a theoretical way. There are real definite techniques for transmuting psychological energies.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Would you give me an illustration?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Let us take a very actual one: the aggressive energies are a big problem, individual and social. The attempt to counteract them, or even to neutralize them only through the positive energies of good will and love is often not sufficient. Of course there must be cultivation of the opposite. That&#8217;s one of the techniques, to cultivate the opposite, therefore to cultivate good will, love, but that leaves the problem of how to deal with and utilize the aggressive energies.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> By practice?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> First by an inner attitude and conviction and then by practice. They can be transmuted either harmlessly or constructively. The harmless means are the techniques of catharsis. One of the simplest ways is the use of a punching ball: if somebody feels rage or anger or has aggressive impulses, let him just go to the punching ball and punch it and punch it and punch it until he perspires. Well, he&#8217;ll find that his emotion of anger has subsided, it has been transmuted into muscular action.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> You see. What about substitution, with anger?<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I&#8217;ll quote another illustration which I give in my book. It was a typical case of an adolescent who had a very stern father. The son had fits of rage and smashed furniture. I suggested to him to have ready newspapers and magazines and telephone directories and at the first beginning of his rage go and tear them with delight. He did it and he smashed no more furniture.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> So that&#8217;s substitution.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I quote it because it is typical. You have had hundreds of such cases. While that boy was doing this he had a sense of power over his anger and he also realized the humorous side of the performance; during or after it he laughed and smiled. But it had to be just at the beginning of the rage, if not it was too late; so I told him: &#8220;Rush to do it just when you feel the anger surging up.&#8221; He did it and he succeeded. This is a very simple example, but there are all kinds of muscular action\u2014chopping wood or making a brisk long walk that transforms the emotional energy into physical action.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Somehow it seems to me that your presence has a lot to do with this.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Yes, I admit that, in part.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Someone else could suggest substitution and it wouldn&#8217;t work. It&#8217;s something about you.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Therapeutic Presence and the Role of Conviction<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> That ties up with the importance of the report. But I think that the influence you mention is also due to my deep conviction based on experience. I have experimented all these techniques upon myself and when I survived and saw they were useful, I tried them on others.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> It seems to me that psychosynthesis requires the therapist to be a Renaissance man, plus that he be a real, authentic, deeply developed person himself.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Training the Therapist Through Self-Application<\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> That would be an ideal. The preparation of a therapist should not be so much &#8220;learning the techniques&#8221; as applying the techniques and methods to himself first. Such a training I give to my students and co-workers: to use the techniques upon themselves.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I found it difficult to be my best self when I came to a new country because I felt like a child. In field I didn&#8217;t know anything. I was ignorant, I didn&#8217;t know how to do anything.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> It&#8217;s fine to feel like a child. All possibilities of development, a renewal.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> This was the helpless side of the child I felt.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Well that&#8217;s purely external. Just to look and absorb as children do.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> (Laughs)<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> This ties up with the psychosynthesis of various ages. When you go back you may ask for my last pamphlet which has just been published, &#8220;The Psychosynthesis of the Human Ages&#8221; which also deals with the &#8220;hot&#8221; question of the relationship between the young and the old. You can ask for it from the Psychosynthesis Research Foundation in New York.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">PAT ROSENTHAL:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Are you familiar with Dr. Eric Berne&#8217;s Transactional Analysis?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Yes, I know about it; this gives me the occasion to say that I never give an opinion on any technique because I think it&#8217;s unrealistic, all depends on: who applies it, how he does it, to whom, for what purpose. That&#8217;s true for every technique. And anyway, the theory behind a technique for me is not important. Some can do very good work with rather debatable techniques and some can do indifferent or bad work within a good theoretical framework. It is the specific application to each individual; that is distinctive of Psychosynthesis. We have no one pet technique. I accept every valuable technique which I can find. I test it and I see how it works. Making an exaggerated and oversimplified analogy, for clarity&#8217;s sake; no dentist uses only one instrument; he needs a whole array of instruments, using one or another in succession for the special need of the cure. The trouble with some psychotherapists is that they use one pet technique and say that it&#8217;s best, and applying it to everybody. Instead each technique may be useful and valuable if well-applied and to the proper situation; therefore, psychosynthesis includes every technique. Transactional Analysis had some good points, but it is not the whole; it doesn&#8217;t answer all the needs. And that applies to Gestalt and to all others. Each may be useful, well applied by the right person to the right case.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">VR<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> : I was impressed that you feel that loneliness or alienation is not inevitable, is not a last point as in the usual existential conception. That people can come to a fuller sense of belonging, of involvement.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> But of course alienation and separation are essentially an illusion. They&#8217;re an illusion. There is no separation in the Universe; cosmic rays are coming all the time in this room and affect us, and also all kinds of other influences, including psychic influences. I believe in the collective unconscious and in waves of collective smog.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> : It feels like separation at times.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Of course! It is a very acute and painful experience. It is &#8220;real&#8221; in a subjective sense. I want to be clear, it is not an illusion in a subjective sense, it is an illusion in an objective sense. And yet it is a valuable experience. It has its meaning, and I should say that it is one of the ways towards union at the higher level.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Hard.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Synthesis does not mean the abolition of differences. It is the balancing and uniting at a higher level. Do you know my pamphlet on &#8220;Balancing of the Opposites&#8221;?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> No, I don&#8217;t.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I&#8217;ll give it to you, there you&#8217;ll find my answer.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I&#8217;m curious about how many students and colleagues you have working at the Psychosynthesis Institute. How large it is.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> It is difficult to say because several come periodically, often from other towns. And students from all parts of the world come here.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I know, I know.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I cannot cope with everything. And new fields are opening to psychosynthesis. Now the next countries to be &#8220;invaded&#8221; are Australia and Mexico; I have students who are going there to do it. Students come for a while, they get individual training and then go. So here it&#8217;s a &#8220;commuting center&#8221; in a sense.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Do they work with you, do you work with them?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Oh, they must work; if not, I send them away! You give them much homework; start with them with their autobiography. Then answering the questionnaire which is in my book. Then daily free drawing. Further, a log diary, an intensive diary. If they are not willing to do that then I refuse to accept them. That gives me the elements for a rapid work with them.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Ah!<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> How much time is often spent in sessions giving information and training that can be done at home by the patient or the student. And it&#8217;s good for them. Even if I didn&#8217;t read what they wrote; but I do read it. I am a bad listener but a good reader. Also often while writing they get the solution to their problems because the super-conscious takes the hand.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">PAT ROSENTHAL:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> YOU think a diary would be good for patients?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Yes; not a purely introspective, emotional diary, but a diary of the whole situation and then bring it to me and I can comment on it. Well it works.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">PR<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> : Does it. Yes, yes.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">VR:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> What do you suggest they do with the diary?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Just bring it to me.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> And then what?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> And then if they say really intimate things, I say, just destroy it or I give it back. That depends. It is the fact of writing it and showing it to me that is important.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> But not an emotional diary?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Also, but not only!<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Ah-Not only!<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> But also! It can be a way of catharsis. Often they begin with emotional outbursts, and then with their own mental assessment of that, and then with questions.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I see\u2014getting in all of the points.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Group Therapy and Cooperative Psychotherapy<\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Yes, express everything of themselves. They can say anything, because in my long career I&#8217;ve heard all sorts of things; nothing can shock me! Now another point about psychotherapy in the future. Psychotherapy by a group. Group psychotherapy by one therapist and the group is very difficult. But a therapeutic group I think may be very useful because a therapist cannot know everything (nobody knows everything!). For instance concerning psychosomatic interaction, it is advisable, if the therapist is not an MD, to have the cooperation of a good clinician; moreover, for the active techniques of bodily movement and other physical therapy, a physical therapist can cooperate. The psychological therapist cannot do everything. And then for family problems a social worker interviewing the family and reporting. So the psychotherapist can hold the direction of the treatment but cooperate with the clinician, with a physical therapist, with social workers, art therapist, musicians and so on. That is what I mean about group therapy\u2014therapy by a group.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> So the therapist holds the reins of this group of various therapists?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> And the direction of the psychotherapy. You see that&#8217;s the difference with the Balint groups which are now functioning in Europe.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> What is that?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> They are groups of various professionals who each study the case and then they meet and discuss the case and each gives his own opinion at length and often they disagree. That can be valuable, for the therapist.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> But not for the patient. A: It should be the chief responsibility of the psychotherapist how to delegate and cooperate with helpers but not discussing the case among professionals that is apt to be confusing.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> So you don&#8217;t work in other groups. You don&#8217;t see people in groups? Yourself.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Generally not. I think the important fact is the rapport, the influence of the therapist; the unique rapport with the patient. But cooperate, yes; that&#8217;s quite another matter. Even some part of the psychotherapy need can be delegated to a specialist of one technique. For instance, the technique of daydreaming. I now have no time to apply it, but I delegate the technique of daydreaming to one of my coworkers and then he reports.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I see, so the patient works with the co-worker.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I lead the therapy, only they bring me the result of their application of that technique; that&#8217;s different.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I believe that each therapist creates psychotherapy in his own image. Would you comment on that?<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Well, in a sense. Of course each therapist uses only his human assets and in that sense he is conditioned by his personality. But he can see his own limitations and qualities and then delegate some parts of the therapy to which he doesn&#8217;t feel fit to somebody who can do it.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> He still then has to be able to see beyond his view of the world in order to refer it to someone else.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Creativity Beyond the Therapist<\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Yes, of course. But the most important thing is to evoke the higher, creative energies of the patient or of the pupil and that is not conditioned by the limitations of the therapist. One can teach a patient or a pupil to be creative beyond one&#8217;s own capacity. I&#8217;ll give you an example. There can be a very good music teacher who makes a pupil able to play concerts that he&#8217;s not able to do, and on the contrary, a great piano player can be a bad teacher, impatient and too demanding. It is very comforting that we can help people to go beyond ourselves.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> That&#8217;s what I was just writing down, that the therapist can help the patient grow beyond the therapist.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Yes, certainly. For instance, if you have somebody with creative artistic possibilities blocked by an inferiority complex, or other blocks, you can release him and he can become a good artist, one that the therapist would not be able to be. In a sense that could be compared to a catalytic action.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Yes, I see.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> So that keeps the therapist at his own level and not thinking too much of himself. It helps humility, but with a sense of dignity of what he can do.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> On first reading, Psychosynthesis seemed to me to be over-simplified or common sense. It seemed to include everything I already knew and yet the more I read, the scope seemed so broad, it was anything but simple, I&#8217;m sure.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<h3><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">Simplicity, Depth, and the Art of Psychosynthesis<\/span><\/span><\/h3>\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> \u2014But I did that on purpose! To entice people, not to scare them. Moreover, I think one would do well to avoid the technical jargon when one can say things in plain words. So it&#8217;s deceptive simplicity; the superficial read it and say, &#8220;All right\u2014hmm-fine book,&#8221; and leave it at that; but others will read it the second and third and fourth time, discovering new layers. So I&#8217;m glad you realized that. So much of the scientific, technical jargon is useless. It may impress but\u2014<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I really didn&#8217;t understand that until I talked with you.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> You see the value of the direct interplay and it happened with many. But now psychosynthesis is spreading in an &#8220;alarming&#8221; way (alarming for me!).<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> As a therapist I know such things but it&#8217;s still a shock for me to see it happen as I sit here with you. It isn&#8217;t that I don&#8217;t know that.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> The difference between intellectual knowledge and factual living contact.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I know it myself.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Yes, good!<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> But this was different.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I&#8217;m very pleased with your understanding and appreciation. So spread the message. You have a great chance with the Academy and VOICES. YOU can do a great amount of good through the magazine.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> It&#8217;s both exciting and frightening to see it happen.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> I understand, because that opens wider horizons. It&#8217;s your opportunity. You have the right preparation. You have grasped well the essentials of psychosynthesis and recognized the value of dealing also with the transpersonal problems of patients; therefore you can cooperate effectively in the development of the inclusive psychotherapy of the future.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">R:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> Thank you.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\">A:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/strong><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"><span dir=\"auto\" style=\"vertical-align: inherit;\"> (Looks at copy of VOICES.) I like this, &#8220;the art and science.&#8221; First art and then science.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\r\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In the taxi on our way to his home on the Via Domenico to interview Dottore Roberto Assagioli, we wonder what he will be like; feeling like intruders even though he has been so graciously helpful in our contacts through correspondence and in yesterday&#8217;s telephone call confirming our coming.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1003,"featured_media":10866,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_genesis_hide_title":false,"_genesis_hide_breadcrumbs":false,"_genesis_hide_singular_image":false,"_genesis_hide_footer_widgets":false,"_genesis_custom_body_class":"","_genesis_custom_post_class":"","_genesis_layout":"","footnotes":"","tve_updated_post":"","tve_custom_css":"","tve_user_custom_css":"","tve_globals":{},"tcb2_ready":0,"tcb_editor_enabled":0,"tve_landing_page":"","_tve_header":"","_tve_footer":""},"categories":[25],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-10865","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","category-roberto-assagioli-interviews-en","entry","override","gs-1","gs-odd","gs-even","gs-featured-content-entry"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v27.9 (Yoast SEO v27.9) - 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